Just a bit of catch-up from last weekend
From your album:
"Patriot Place on the Golf Course :)"
This is our new dream house ... we seem to be going through them, but most have some common themes like open interiors, vaulted ceilings, and bedrooms on the main floor. It is 45 minutes East to work and 45 minutes west to Rich’s moms. This one is on the Bolingbrook Golf Club called the Patriot Place. We share the common building between 3 homeowners, but we don't have to shovel snow or mow and trim the lawn ... nice!
When I first started looking at this house, I had intended for Rich’s parents to live with us. Then Rich decided he didn’t need the finished basement when he saw how big it was, but the Rich surprised us last night by talking about elderly community type place to live, and by that we later learned he’s thinking of the possibility of doing the house with Bob and Doug. The house without basement is 2100 square feet and the basement is an additional 1260 square feet. So this morning we are looking at things with fresh eyes. I think that the biggest two problems are that my money is being spent on debt, Rich’s is tied up in alimony, With the others’ backgrounds plus Doug is about to go major bankrupt – there might not be a more unlikely crew to get a house … the next thing then would be to put a big amount down AND more than likely purchase through a corporation. Where we’d as a total have to come up with like $3200 a month, which would be $800 a piece. As to my expenses - we are putting in each month about $600. I’m looking here at the cost of mortgage being around $2600, cable $200, electricity and heat $400. Maybe Doug would pay like $600 and Rich and Bob would pick up an extra $100. Just so it was a little more fair and reasonable for Doug. He could be like a renter. Shoot there is $210 in association dues too
If we had to save longer to each come up with more of a down payment, then maybe the mortgage would be lower. I’m thinking we would need $340-350 into it to get all the extras done including the bathroom down stairs, plus the crawl space to be finished for extra storage or for a room for the fishing stuff. Ideally, the fishing stuff would all go out in the garage, but that’s the other biggest sticking point. There is only a 2 car garage, plus room for 2 vehicles and they couldn’t be left outside with advertising on them. Bob is the one that really needs a garage for his guys … I think he keeps his work supplies in it, so if Bob got the garage that would take away two spots for the cars and that’s if the fishy stuff went down to the extra storage space in the basement. Obviously then the problem would be is that we have 4 cars between the group of us. That could be a deal breaker. If we could rent out a garage or parking next to us … that be great, but it is not something one can plan for. The other idea would be to park them in the association place, but I think eventually that space will be taken up with homes. I think you can park in the street, but I don’t think you can park there every night.
This is the floor plan for the main floor. The way Rich and us talked about it we’d each get our own spots, plus there would be community space for everyone. Basically, Rich and I would share the master room – 2 for 1, Doug would get the lower level bedroom, and then Bob would get the room with the tent and playground in it now. It would be about twice as big as Doug’s place. And, then down in the lower level where the movie viewing is now – then we could use Bob’s living room to set up an entertainment center. Already down there is an option for surround sound and it has the biggest empty wall that could be good for his very large entertainment and collection center. I don’t know if Doug would be coming into the deal with much more than a bed or two and maybe a work table or desk.
I think we’re thinking Doug gets a smaller room 13x14” – though plenty big for an extra bed and work area, because we figure he likely will put the least in it because of his business which isn’t doing well nor has been for a long time. This following bedroom is bedroom #4. The part to the NW saying finished basement would be Bob’s room. Just have to build a wall. And then the big room in the middle is the second family room. That part’s finished too. Over on the unfinished side to the mid-east is where you would put a very nice bathroom – which is an option with this house. And then in the space that says “crawl” to the SW corner can be made into a regular part of the basement and is a very big space for what would most likely become the workshop/fishing place. Problem is I believe that there’d only be one exit out of the basement. I don’t think there was an option to put in a walk-out basement which would have been perfect. The space to the SE is not open – it’s under the garage.
This would be Doug’s room. This is the next big thing. The reason this is all being considered as it is … is because apparently Doug’s wife just announced that she will be moving to her DIL’s down in Florida or Arizona or something and she’s invited her husband to come with her, but it is not a requirement. That is leaving Doug with potentially not many options as to his house … he’s actually got two of them, but they are both mortgaged up to the hilt and would most likely be lost in the bankruptcy. I don’t think they will get a divorce, but they might be living separate because Doug says he will not move down there.
I’m thinking that he’s going to try continuing his business, but he’s going to need scaling back. Because of the bankruptcy and probable sale or foreclosure of the homes, he’s most likely is not going to be able to be on a title. Because of his business being as bad as it is … the last thing we would all like to do is lose the place we’re all in to his debts. Best to keep him paying as much as he can to the corporation and then seeing how it goes from there. I know that he is counting on an inheritance from his parents, but there’s no telling when and if he will get that ever and how much of that would go to his failing business debts. We just know the part where the parents haven’t been giving him any money as it is.
I don’t know if Bob and Doug would mind being in the lower level which for all practical purposes is just a finished basement. It’s got 9 foot ceilings and is very large and open so that part has some credit toward it. Bob would need the bigger place because he’s more a substantial contributor to the plan and because at least 4 days a week he has Marcia staying over. Marcia would not be paying into the place, so that part might need to be discussed. Or, possibly Bob would need to compensate somehow. I wouldn’t want to come between them having as much access as possible, but the reality is that nearly 60% of the time … for all practical purposes Marcia is living in the place and that’s a little extra drain on the system. Or, it could be a plus if everyone were happy.
This would be Bob’s space, but it is even bigger then this … you are only seeing 2 partial walls here. Rich describes Doug as pretty simplistic and spending a lot of his little free time at a table working over business figures. Most of the down stairs “family room” would be for Bob to put together and most of the upstairs “family room” would be Rich’s and mine to put together. I would think the best solution is that anyone on their own could use either room for TV viewing, but that when push comes to shove that Bob and Marcia would have a more private place and Rich and I would have more a private place in each of the separate family rooms. The ideal would be that we each have REALLY private space in the bedrooms as well.
This next picture would be Bob’s family room – without the raised part unless he wanted it built. This is all part of the finished basement. It doesn’t show in this picture, but on the west side of this room is a door going into the storage area which would again be the work/fishing room.
I think Rich’s bedroom and ours would be actually the smallest, but if we didn’t include a dresser we could have a TV on the wall and perhaps a setting of the two rockers with a place to put our feet up. If we wanted to lie together and massage – we’d of course have the bed. Maybe we still might have a dresser, but we’d pull the bed closer to the bathroom so on the window side we could fit in a settee. To compensate for the small room for two would be that we would have the master bedroom closet and we’d have our own bath which is really nice. Ahh the room is a little bigger than Doug’s 3 feet wider or 13x17.
This is the upstairs family room. Maybe we’d say Rich and I would have the living room and Bob could have the Family room. It is flanked by large windows and it has a door going out to the deck. I love the floors done in ceramic like these, but every things an extra cost. The best part of this living room besides openness, windows and doors and access to the patio, but also space for TV AND fireplace!
This is the front part of the living room ... as signature for the places I love it's got a fireplace
Coming into the house is a wide open space and I think would be great for receiving guests or Bob’s workers. To the right as you walk in is the laundry room. I’m glad it is on the central floor. I would request that along the walls coming into the house that I could place my six book shelves. Maybe one on either side of the office door and four along the long wall. I’m not so sure that everyone really wants to see my books, but they are part of me and wouldn’t fit anywhere else … and I don’t believe anyone really has something they want to put in place rather than them.
This is the hallway looking from the front door back toward the doors past the fireplace. You can see where the stairs downstairs come in ... basically the stairs are across the kitchen. I like that the access to the two guys going downstairs is so direct from the front door. There are a couple more rooms we haven’t talked about – both are bedrooms or what I’d like to think was an office. I’m thinking that Rich and I get the office – also in lieu of not having as much space. The living room too would be smaller than the family room, and most apt to be shared space – though hopefully in the evening Rich an I could cuddle up. The office is at the front of the building … Rich and I would need a desk, but it could fit our credenza and hutch. I’m not sure if the sewing room has to go in it too, or if that would have to fit in our bedroom. I wouldn’t want it out in the general space because it would be taking up room.
Another consideration is the drafting table. Maybe if the office was big enough we could fit the credenza/hutch and a desk for Rich, and then on the opposite side the sewing machine and drafting table. Hmm, 13x13. I think it could fit and it give Rich and us a working space, plus we could have a TV in that room too though the music should be fine enough. The long west wall would have the 6’ credenza and the 4’ sewing machine, Rich’s desk would be 6’ on the east wall, Hmm, maybe file on either side of credenza – that be like 6 +3 + 3 = 12 of 13 feet, and then the 4 foot sewing machine under the window and Rich’s desk along the east wall. It be nice if it could fit going out, but might have to settle for it facing east. Hmm, for that matter I might have to put my drafting table north to fit in chairs and have it access the credenza. Would have to be worked out.
This room would be next to Rich’s and my room and across the hall from the first floor general bathroom. I would make sure that this room remained a guest bedroom. I’m saying this because each of us have families and it would be a good thing to reserve space for each of them. I’m sure if Doug’s wife was visiting she’d sleep with him in either one bed or two, but if that wasn’t working she could have the room. I’m thinking that they may or may not have kids or other family who would like to visit. Maybe his parents would stop by? Not sure.
Bob would also most likely have Marcia sleep with him, though she should be given some consideration for the second bedroom. BUT, unless she paid in it would or should not be known as her room particularly because she would be over for so many weekends when others were there. However, if Bob wanted one of his kids to stay over – with or without grandchild there would be an extra room for her. It would have to be something though for all of us that are kids do not move in with us. I’m not sure though what to think of parents. What happened that any one of us – EXCEPT me would take in a parent … obviously we’d lose the guest room. Maybe that is something to be further discussed. Bob’s got 5 kids – likely though he might need the room – or if he had a hoard of kids stop over, he’d have to house them in the family room.
Rich and us would have similar situations in that either our kids from out of town or our grandchildren might sleep over. That would have to be planned. As to who would decorate the room – maybe it be a combination of our extra stuff or Bob’s – maybe even Doug’s but I’m thinking most of his stuff is going to go or go with the wife. We’re not sure. It is pretty presumptuous that we figure he’s coming into this without a wife, but that have to be planned for too. If she were around more – like during the summer months or something on that order, then we’d have to figure an extra adult in the house. I think that anyone staying more than a week or two shouldn’t be holding up the guest room unless discussed. I’d feel even as a woman and I know the only woman buying into the house, but that if Marcia or Doug’s wife wanted to stay more – they’d certainly be invited to share all the general house space, but the guest room isn’t for long term arrangements. Rich and I have to bunk-up they will as well.
We’d also have to leave room for the part of 3 kitties living in the house. Maybe 2 would stay up or 1 down, but I wouldn’t think we’d have to separate them all the time like by shutting doors. That would be terrible for all.
This would of course be shared space. We might arrange to have a table for at least 8 instead of 6 because there wouldn’t be enough for any of the regulars to have people over. Of course they could share the 3 chair space at the breakfast bar, but that wouldn’t be the optimal for formal dinners. Our table fits 6 people and I don’t believe Bob uses only his wide counter, but I’m not sure if Doug would have a table that would be bigger. If he had a formal table it might be pretty old and used … I’m thinking his wife might not want a table if she was moving in with her DIL, but it’s hard to tell. Maybe a larger table would just have to be purchased. I’m thinking that the two baker’s racks could go either in the guest room for decorative, or they could go on either side of the dining room window. That’s where I would prefer them.
This is about the dreamiest kitchen one could ever see. It is larger than the others we looked at, more open (three ways in) and the breakfast bar is closeer to regular sitting level so you don't have to stand to look in on the kitchen. It is VERY huge with miles of 42" cabinets. This kitchen is one of the reasons I know the arrangement would work out so good – just because it’s so large. There are high cabinets on two walls and lower cabinets on all four sides and cabinets under the island. The purpose here would be to have space for all the individual sets of pots, pans and such – or combine them, and then there are dishes and everyone should have at least a set of cupboards for their particular groceries. I’d want as much stuff off the counter and I know Bob’s kitchen is FULL of stuff, but that would have to be argued out. I don’t know how to really do the fridge space so that there was room for everyone. I don’t know if you would combine food ingredients like eggs and milk, or if everyone would want to buy their own. Maybe that would be something Rich and Bob could handle.
There is also the pantry. I would like to see that being used as goods for everyone that were non-food items. Maybe here it would be easier to split up white shelving. I think as to cat space … we’d probably have to put it in the bathroom and just watch it daily. Either that or it could be tucked away down stairs in the unfinished part, but there wouldn’t be as much incentive for any one particular to clean. I don’t know if the Bob’s cats and mine would try to share a littler basket like Nef did when he was over, or if something else would happen. There’d have to be a place though for the cats to be eating. I’m pretty sure Chief isn’t going to give up his wet food, but maybe if it were something Bob’s cat would like there would just be food put out twice a day. That all would have to be worked out. I think Doug is out of the place often enough due to working every day that he wouldn’t bring in animals if he had them. That would be too much of others taking care of his stuff.
This is the window over the sink and that wall. Most likely dishwasher would be run every day … and maybe I’d volunteer for that or whomever else … I like where it gets run at nighttime and cleaned up first thing in the morning. The room is SOOO big that it should be able to contain 4-6 people wandering around looking for coffee. I think Bob has a big coffee pot, but we’d have to make sure everyone was chipping in for coffee. Maybe we would through a little more in the joint account and some items be purchased from it as a group. This would particularly apply to cleaning supplies. I’m sure there are enough vacuums so there’d be one downstairs and up. We’d have to rotate cleaning the kitchen, but pretty much all the other areas would be per specific “ownership.” We’d probably Rich and me take the upstairs extra overflow bath on the main floor and guest room, because we’d already be up taking care of living, office and bedrooms. Maybe whoever cleaned the kitchen would be also responsible for the laundry room.
I know that Bob can do stuff … I don’t know how much Marsha does, but I’m guessing Bob does most. I’m not thinking Doug does much because most likely his wife has been taking care of him. That’s really the whole main thing if I may now add … A lot of this is because Rich really thought that Doug was going to be in a housing bind in the very near future. I believe he volunteered that if he had to let go of his place and stay here, that both Bob and us had an extra bedroom. I’m not sure if he’d go back and forth, or pick on or another – hopefully until a house could be built. It’s hard to say the time span with all of this. By the horoscope … it seems that right around the 29-30th something is going to happen around housing … that is why we’re putting this much priority on things now.
If Rich doesn’t talk to Bob in the next few days, then we might talk to Bob ourselves … just to get an idea how farfetched this plan would be. I know it would come up about getting another place – especially one with a bigger garage and driveway. AND maybe someplace where we own the whole building. But, I think the guys are going to find like Rich … it’s nice not to have yard to take care of and driveway. I also think the three of them would be pleased to be living on a golf course. I have no reason to disbelieve this isn’t a pretty looking option as to space. I’m not sure what Doug’s place looks like, but I’m thinking old and outdated. Big thing is that it sounds like the wife is going 100% with or without Doug … and Doug is refusing to go. There is no way he can keep up one household all to himself, he’s going to need the money to pay off debt and he’s going to need scaling back maintenance and other space considerations. My understanding is that he really spends almost all the time working and when he’s home he’s figuring out his paperwork.
Of the three guys and us … Bob and Rich would tie for cooking though I believe Bob is better out on the grill and Rich is better inside the kitchen. I might tie with Doug for the worse cook … not sure how he is at that. As to maintenance Bob would be the best, but Rich would help. I’m guessing Doug can get around with a screwdriver because of all the maintenance he’s had to do with his own store. I’m probably the one that seems most like a girl. Have to be careful there and especially not to get expected to be doing all that.
There is the question as to why or how we could do this with this particular combination of people. Even though I’ve known Rich for 15 years, I’m still the new one in the group. I think Doug has been more out of it as late, but these three guys have gone way back to high school. And, even though Rich lost $30,000 plus through Doug … he doesn’t hold that against him. He did ask to be completely out of the deal, because he’s pretty sure the store should have been sold by now. But, that’s up to him to decide. The housing option for Doug is to give him something with far less cost, but that is still nice, and to give him companionship, especially if he makes that decision not to live with his wife. I’m sure there will be times they get together periodically, especially for the holidays, but I’m guessing that’s part of the problem – that Doug is so busy with his store that there isn’t time for too much socializing or visiting. I don’t think Rich has been invited over to their house for the last 2-3 years. I think when he was out at Algonquin he might have been a more frequent visitor.
I don’t have any particular idea that Doug’s wife likes most likely either Marcia or myself. I’m not sure if she’d have too much say if the houses got sold from underneath Doug’s debt. It would be very important Doug doesn’t get included in the new house’s assets because I’d hate for someone to kick us all out. From what Rich has said the wife didn’t like that Rich was cheating obviously on his wife. I don’t think in recent 20-25 year history any of their wives or past wives really got together. I don’t know what she’d think of Marcia being married either. It doesn’t bother or affect me or Rich – so I would think it should be the same for her, but I don’t know that. That’s wild card. What happen if they wanted to move her back to the city for example if it didn’t work out with her living in the south with family. Could we have 3 women in the house … and would the other 2 be responsible to pay some share of things.
It would have to be discussed. I’m very satisfied I can get along with Marcia and she me, but neither of us know this other woman and how much she’d try to take over or overwhelm the group. For example if Bob and Marcia and me and Rich were to get the living room and family room – where would she hang out. We know Doug would wander a bit, but eventually settle for his bedroom office, but it be too tight for two people – one of which we have little information.
The proportion here on the island makes it look too long, but you can see the pantry door (sorta like a post) and the fridge and terribly long counter if there weren't enough on the other 3-4 walls! Maybe one of the things is that I’d put the stainless steel small fridge in the master bathroom between sinks. Maybe. I think basically, I’d be looking in a place in the bedroom, bath or bedroom closet for the extra fridge. That way Rich and us could have a little private stash for leftovers or liquids. I don’t know if the other guys would or not, but it would be a good idea to take some pressure off the fridge. Another thing that would help would be to get a big storage freezer down in the basement. That would take good pressure off the situation as well. If we were to reach for one more option … it would be to install in one of the cabinets a drink fridge. I’ve just seen them start to come out. Hmm, here’s an idea … looking at this picture again – where the three pots behind the pie plate are …
Maybe we could get something like this … It’s only $240
I like that idea a lot. That would take some pressure off the fridge for sure and having it up higher between the kitchen and the hall with stairs going down … would make it more convenient so that people wouldn’t have to actually come in the kitchen area for a drink. The undercounter models seem to go for $500-1000. That be cost prohibitive for just drinks. The excess liquids could be kept in the pantry and filled regular like at a store. I really like this idea! An upright freezer would cost about $500-700 moderately and can go in that room with the furnace and stuff … it’s roughed in and fine for that purpose. Hmm, chest freezers could cost about the same for the same approximate 19-20 cu ft storage. It have to be the guys preference
Ok, good good … at least then we’ve taken off some pressure from the fridge. One regular fridge, one drink fridge – both in the kitchen – one individual small fridge in each of the bedrooms, and a freezer down in the roughed in part. Good good. Should leave plenty of space for whatever could be left from condiments down to fruits and veggies.
Ok, this is the last part of what’s being offered here with this group of pictures and comments. Time for me to wrap things up in a summary. Rich has just got here and he’s going to put in the printers, so we’re going to print this document out and give it to Bob at the right time … not sure when that will be, but at least he knows what I’m thinking. Big thing will be for the guys to get together with their thinking and working things out as best friends do. When Rich brought up this possibility of getting this particular house for the four of us … he let me say a few things. First he didn’t want me to get overexcited, but I think he really wanted to get my opinion, because it would be too half my relationship with him shared with 3 guys and particular 3 of HIS best friends.
I don’t think I gave it that much of a second thought. I did however tell him I don’t think it would be financially possible. Both he and Bob would have to have good seasons. I think Bob’s is picking up and Rich’s will pick up in June and July … so it would be up to the two of them to come up with the solid figures and to get a sizeable down payment that would be so big that the bank wouldn’t turn us down. As to the four of us … we’ve each got our problems with financial or other. We’d have to figure out if I was paying 25% for my share – would Marcia and Doug’s wife be responsible for anything if they came to stay – or would it be as long as the space doesn’t change they could be included in the other’s deal. But, I would imagine that much less privacy in the kitchen, dining room and even living room where I might feel put out by them not contributing – especially to privacy, food costs and cleaning.
Other than that pretty sure we’d get along … just don’t know Doug’s wife. I don’t think either Bob or Rich has befriended her and I don’t know how much she would or would like to have over Doug’s living situation. Rich says that after she retires – is very close to 65 now she is leaving with or without him. So how solidly can we trust that. Would she come back and want to live with us for nothing – or would she feel if they did contribute more they should get more proportion of the house that I would not like to further divide. It might have to work out then that Doug coming in would be the most temporary if he wanted to reestablish his marriage. I don’t know the guys would decide the most of this.
I’m really pretty positive about Marcia at this point. We’d have to be careful to giving ourselves space if she wanted to use up too much of my extra time talking.
Sometimes like when we are working with our hands sewing it wouldn’t be as much problem as it would for instance if we were typing. That’s the nice part about the office upstairs is that I could go there to sew or write and leave behind any extra stuff going on in the kitchen or dining room. It’s a good outlet and with a small TV would be even better, because I wouldn’t feel dis-included if I had to leave.
I think pretty much people would appreciate coming into the kitchen/dining area for places to be social. I think that’s one reason we’re thinking this could work so well for Bob. He seems to need extra attention and I think it must be having some effect on Rich, especially concerning meeting for meals like breakfast or lunch.
Rich wants to spend time I think with Bob because he doesn’t want him feeling alone, but then if he’s in his pj’s doing his computer, he doesn’t want to get up and go out to eat, but then he feels bad for disappointing Bob. If they were in the same house – as well as Doug and us – then nobody would be lonely.
Rich and I just stopped for 15 minutes to have lunch. He didn’t get to the part of talking to Bob about Doug. Probably best for that to happen on its own volition. Well at least until there’s a situation where I’m with Bob and trying to hold back.
I’m not too much in favor of holding back.
I’m more like ok you got an idea now run with it.
Ok, we're back again ... it's almost a week since we wrote this so I thought as long as I am posting this now and have 20 minutes I could update the situation. It hasn't gotten very far. I decided not to show Bob the writing, because I didn't want to scare anyone with it or I didn't want anyone saying no to the plan. Of course, anything said now is going to be negative so the thing I figured was to let the idea sit for a while.
It must have been Wednesday I did it because Rich and Bob were at the poker game. I had also worked on the auction items for the Spring Fling. I dropped off the auction items at Bob's, but I did not drop this item. We did go out with Bob and Marica Friday night and I believe it was then that we told him that we were all going to move in together. We had been at the little Italian place and Marcia was there too.
It was presented in a few sentences that made him say what? But, then we cracked our grin so he knew that it was only half serious. We looked inquiringly at Rich and said you didn't tell him we were moving in together? I thought it was a done deal? By this time Bob was looking to Rich to figure out what the woman was saying. Basically, then Rich told Bob that he'd talked to Doug and then he told Bob a few things in man language about that. I figured I'd done most of my part by then. I'd planted the seed. Hehehe. I think I spoke up a few more times when I was apologizing to Bob because the place only had a 2 car and that he was going to end up in the basement, because Rich and I were going to get the master bedroom. And, then I think we also told him that we had run into a problem with our thinking in that how would it be if I were paying for 24/7 living, but that Marcia might be staying there 60% without paying or what happened if Dougy's wife came back and wanted to live there too.
We were being pretty whimsical, but it's important for the guys to know that if things one day ever turn toward that direction out of necessity that I'd be in favor of it. I know that I would need special time with Rich when we were by ourselves, but then on the otherhand we wouldn't mind living with them either because they were Rich's best friends which makes them to the end of the Earth type people with me.
I think it only later came up in a sentence with a short reference to "Well if we were going to be living together!" Rich was more negative when he was telling his side discounting some of his more positive thoughts put toward it. But, I made sure Bob knew that it wasn't me that brought up housing this time it had been Rich! Hmpf! Well, he's going to need taking responsibility for that.
I'm going to need getting going now though. We're going to leave for his Mom's place. We'll meet at home first to drop off a car and then go from there. Hopefully we'll have a good conversation between us about some mushy stuff. That probably won't happen, but it sure be nice. I think we're going to need talking out this next weekend a bit ... he said something about going fishing ... well you gotta imagine we're all for that!
posted by Ann Marie @ 3/22/2010 02:05:00 PM
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